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1 STATE ATTORNEY INVESTIGATION
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IN RE: LISA MCPHERSON |
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6 _________________________________|
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STATEMENT OF: RITA BOYKIN
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TAKEN BY: State of Florida
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BEFORE: Sheryl M. Williams,
12 CSR, CP, RPR, CM,
Notary Public,
13 State of Florida at large.
14 DATE: March 18, 1997
15 PLACE: Office of State Attorney,
Criminal Courts Complex,
16 Clearwater, Florida.
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23 KANABAY & KANABAY OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
24 ST. PETERSBURG, CLEARWATER - 821-3320
25 TAMPA - 224-9500
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2 APPEARANCES: MR. MARK MCGARRY,
Assistant State Attorney
3 Attorney for State of Florida
4 DET. SGT. WAYNE C. ANDREWS
City of Clearwater
5 Clearwater Police Department
Criminal Investigations Division
6 Crimes Against Persons Unit
645 Pierce Street
7 Clearwater, Florida 34616
8 MR. ALLAN "LEE" STROPE
Special Agent
9 Florida Department of Law
Enforcement
10 Clearwater Field Office
28870 U.S. Highway 19, Suite 200
11 Clearwater, Florida 34621
12 MR. JOHN F. LAURO, P.A.
Suite 3950
13 Barnett Plaza
101 East Kennedy Boulevard
14 Tampa, Florida 33602
15 Attorney for Rita Boykin
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KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 LAURO: Mark, before we get started,
2 let me just put on the record that my name is John
3 Lauro and I represent Ms. Boykin. Ms. Boykin is
4 testifying today pursuant to a subpoena that has been
5 issued by the State Attorney's Office, and she would
6 otherwise assert her constitutional protections but for
7 this subpoena and, therefore, she, I believe, is
8 afforded all the protections of Florida law pursuant to
9 that subpoena and she is testifying under Florida law
10 in accordance with the subpoena. Thank you.
11 ______________________________________
12 RITA BOYKIN
13 the witness herein, being first duly sworn, was
14 examined and testified as follows:
15 EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. MCGARRY:
17 Q. All right, we will begin. Rita, my name is
18 Mark McGarry. I am a prosecutor, and the reason we
19 have you here is I want to talk to you a little bit
20 about the period in your life that was in '95, during
21 November and December, involving a person by the name
22 of Lisa McPherson. Are you familiar with her?
23 A. Yes, I am.
24 Q. Let's get some background, if we could, and
25 start out with, what is your date of birth?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 A. February 8, 1952.
2 Q. And where were you born?
3 A. Marina, California.
4 Q. And how long have you lived in Clearwater?
5 A. A year and a half.
6 Q. Where did you come from before that.
7 A. I was living previously in New York.
8 Q. Is that your given name or is that a married
9 name?
10 A. It's a married name.
11 Q. And what was your given name?
12 A. Hampton, HAMPTON.
13 Q. Are you divorced?
14 A. I was divorced in New York.
15 Q. What was your husband's name?
16 A. Steve Boykin.
17 Q. Does he live in Clearwater?
18 A. No, he is living in New York right now.
19 Q. All right. Is he also a member of the Church?
20 A. Yes, he is.
21 Q. And why did you come to Clearwater?
22 A. I came here for training. I was -- I worked
23 for the Church here in Clearwater called Flag, but I
24 was in New York. I came down for some training.
25 Q. All right, for --
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 A. For job enhancement.
2 Q. Well, when did you first become involved in
3 the Church?
4 A. April of '85.
5 Q. Okay, and where was that, in New York or
6 California?
7 A. It was in South Criss (phonetic), California.
8 Q. And at some point, then, I guess it's almost
9 over ten years that you became a staff member of the
10 Church?
11 A. Almost immediately.
12 Q. In what capacity was that?
13 A. There was a guy I met at South Criss. That
14 was where I first found out about Scientology, and I
15 began volunteering in the type of work I am doing right
16 now, and before I become a staff member there a few
17 months later -- it had been maybe a year and a few
18 months, I joined the Church in LA.
19 Q. Okay, what was your capacity? What did you
20 do?
21 A. The job title was services officer and what
22 we did is we worked with -- helped people in that area,
23 like the eastern part of the United States, and I came
24 down to this church for additional services, so I did
25 all sorts of things in that capacity.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 Q. All right, what brought you to Clearwater?
2 A. I came down for some additional training.
3 Q. Okay. Do you remember what month that was?
4 A. It was Thanksgiving Day.
5 Q. Of what year?
6 A. It was last year?
7 MR. LAURO: Well, I think
8 A. Actually, it was two years.
9 BY MR. MCGARRY:
10 Q. This is November of 95 we are talking about
11 now, and I assume you are the author of some of these
12 documents we are going to discuss.
13 A. Thanksgiving.
14 Q. Okay, so you are saying you came Thanksgiving
15 of 1995?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. That was the first day you set foot in
18 Clearwater?
19 A. Well, at this time. I have been here before.
20 Q. I mean for this duration.
21 A. Yes, yes.
22 Q. That would have been the 23rd. All right,
23 then you indicated that was for additional services
24 here?
25 A. Yes.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 Q. Can you elaborate on that?
2 A. Oh, I was just getting more personal
3 advancement, you know. Part of the compensation of the
4 work is to get specialized church services for
5 ourselves and I was here to do that.
6 Q. I got you. Any other staff duties at all,
7 other than your personal --
8 A. For that period of time, I was just going to
9 get some training and do it and go back to New York.
10 Q. I got you. Did you know anybody down here?
11 A. I knew many people, telephonic, you know,
12 people that were over the phone, because I talked to
13 them on my job up in New York. There were some staff
14 members here that had been up to New York.
15 Q. That you know?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Was that in the Flag building, the Fort
18 Harrison building or was that in one of the other --
19 A. It was in the apartment complex where the
20 staff met.
21 Q. I got you. So you live by yourself?
22 A. I have roommates. I have an apartment and
23 roommates that are also staff members.
24 Q. How many?
25 A. Three.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 Q. Have they been the same roommates all along?
2 A. No, they haven't.
3 Q. Who were your roommates back in November '95?
4 A. Well
5 Q. If you can remember.
6 A. A girl named Alice. Well, I can picture the
7 other girl. I think her first name is Margaret
8 (phonetic), and two other roommates who I don't
9 remember right now.
10 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record).
11 BY MR. MCGARRY:
12 Q. Are they still there?
13 A. Yeah, they are. Her name is Angie Peterson.
14 Q. Did any of these girls have any contact with
15 Lisa?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Are you living in the same apartment that you
18 moved into the very first time?
19 A. I am in the same apartment again, but I had
20 moved out of there at that time.
21 Q. Technically, in November of '95, you were not
22 a staff member?
23 A. Oh, yeah.
24 Q. You were a staff member of the Church, but
25 you were receiving additional training and counseling?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is there a person in November of '95 that
3 would be your counselor or be your supervisor or be
4 your minister? What term am I looking for here?
5 MR. ANDREWS: Senior?
6 A. Right. Senior would have been Bo
7 Wennberg. Bo, B 0; Wennberg, W E N N B E R G.
8 BY MR. MCGARRY:
9 Q. Is he still around?
10 A. Yes, he is.
11 Q. Okay, is he still your senior?
12 A. No, he is not.
13 Q. Who is your senior now?
14 A. Now it's Dave Houghton, H O U G H T O N.
15 Q. Any in between?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Going on to Lisa, what brought you in contact
18 with Lisa?
19 A. A person who was trying to, you know, like,
20 organize people to take care of her.
21 Q. Who was that?
22 A. His name was Oliver Jarrot. Spelled like
23 Oliver, and the last name, J A R R O T.
24 Q. And what was his title or responsibilities at
25 the Flag?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 A. The title was HC Cope Officer (phonetic), but
2 in his capacity at that time, he would get people
3 organized together.
4 Q. Was that a special assignment that he was
5 charged with or is that something he does with people
6 that are in--
7 A. It was a special assignment, very unusual
8 circumstance, and to simply create -- you know, get
9 together people to take care of her. There was nothing
10 already existing.
11 Q. Does he have an expertise, meaning does he
12 have any medical training, that you are aware of?
13 A. No. He's an administrator. Basically he
14 deals with personnel.
15 Q. So when did you have contact with him?
16 A. Just briefly, and he said, Rita, I need your
17 help.
18 Q. Obviously after Thanksgiving, the 23rd of
19 November?
20 MR. LAURO: Could it have been
21 Thanksgiving Day?
22 A. I am honestly not sure. Thanksgiving Day or
23 the day after. Possibly after that. I am not sure.
24 BY MR. MCGARRY:
25 Q. All right. Where was this and what did he
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 say?
2 A. I think we were in his general office area.
3 There were - I think there probably would have been a
4 few other people, but not necessarily involved in our
5 conversation.
6 Q. And what was that conversation?
7 A. I need your help. Go see Arthur, Arthur
8 Baxter.
9 Q. Who is he?
10 A. He was the head of security at that point.
11 Q. Is he still there?
12 A. He is in security. He is not in charge
13 anymore.
14 Q. Who is?
15 A. I believe Paul Kellerhous.
16 Q. Paul Kellerhous. So you went and saw Arthur
17 Baxter?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And do you remember when that was?
20 A. Again, I am not sure.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. It was after Thanksgiving Day, within a
23 couple of days.
24 Q. All right, and what was that conversation
25 about?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 A. He told me there is this lady named Lisa
2 McPherson. This is not his exact words.
3 Q. Okay, that's fair enough.
4 A. He said she is a very nice girl. He said,
5 But she is not herself at all. We need to help her
6 get through a crisis. He said that - he just started
7 telling me basically how she was behaving. He said,
8 you know, she is, like, extremely violent. He said,
9 Don't, under any circumstances, relax your guard with
10 her. Don't let her get her fingernails into you. He
11 said, She is a great gal, but right now she is not
12 that way at all. You have to really, really watch
13 yourself.
14 Q. Were you briefed on the circumstances of her
15 entering the hospital to begin with?
16 A. No, I did find out about that, but I am not
17 really sure, I don't believe.
18 Q. Okay. Did he tell you who else was going to
19 be a member of this watch team? Is that what this was
20 called, a watch?
21 A. Well, the term watch can be used for almost
22 any job you are assigned to. Your watch is this period
23 of time you are supposed to be doing what you are
24 doing.
25 Q. Kind of a Naval term?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 A. Yeah, really.
2 Q. Well, I read that ruling.
3 A. There are other definitions that doesn't
4 apply. The watch is the term, your responsibility for
5 that period of time.
6 Q. Okay. I am not sure you answered the
7 question. The people that you -- did you meet the
8 people you were involved with?
9 A. I am not sure. No, initially, no, definitely
10 not initially.
11 Q. Were you provided some type of schedule, I
12 guess, that would have your name on it for a time
13 frame? This is something I created (indicating).
14 A. To begin with, no. It was a very sad
15 situation, like a very difficult thing to come up and
16 hand to me, and when I first saw her, she was, like,
17 extremely violent, a number of people in the room. It
18 had turned out to be three of us taking care of her.
19 Q. So there were three people that rotated the
20 care-taking?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And those three people are?
23 A. Myself, Sylvia. I remember her name, Sylvia
24 DeLavaga. Capital D E, capital L A V A G A. There
25 were four of us. A woman whose name is Heather, last
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 name is Pietzold. P I E T Z O L D.
2 MR. ANDREWS: What was that last name?
3 A. Current last name is Pietzold. P I E T Z 0 L
4 D.
5 MR. STROPE: I can't hear you.
6 MR. MCGARRY: I apologize for the noise.
7 They are constructing in this building next to us.
8 MR. STROPE: P I?
9 A. P I E T Z O L D.
10 MR. STROPE: Thank you.
11 A. And then there was Laura Arrunado. I am not
12 positive of the spelling of the last name.
13 MR. STROPE: A R R U N A D O.
14 A. Yeah.
15 BY MR. MCGARRY:
16 Q. Now, was Valerie part of this?
17 A. Not at the end. In the beginning she was. I
18 am not even sure that Valerie and I were there at the
19 same time.
20 Q. Her last name?
21 A. Demange.
22 Q. So when you picked it up, it was you, Sylvia,
23 Heather and Laura?
24 A. That's what it settled down to. When I first
25 walked in, there were a number of people there. Should
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 I give you their names?
2 Q. Sure.
3 A. Barbro, B A R B R 0, Wennberg.
4 Q. WENNBERG.
5 A. Yeah. I believe Joan Stevens was there at
6 that time. Heather was either there or left, Heather
7 Pietzold, P I E T Z O L D.
8 Q. Patricia?
9 A. Patricia?
10 Q. Stracener.
11 A. Oh, I don't remember her. I was brought in
12 there by a senior. She might have been there. I just
13 don't remember. I didn't even know her and I don't
14 remember her.
15 Q. How about Emma?
16 A. I don't think Emma was there. You are
17 talking about Emma Schermerhorn?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. I don't think she was there.
20 Q. Okay. So you indicated the first day that
21 you saw Lisa, there was a lot of people around?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you remember what day that was?
24 A. No.
25 Thanksgiving is obviously a Thursday, so we
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 are probably coming up on the weekend.
2 A. I don't remember exactly. it was within a
3 couple of days of Thanksgiving, though.
4 Q. Okay. And what were the circumstances of
5 that setting? How did you come to be in that room?
6 A. Well, I came because I was somebody who could
7 be talked out of what I was there to do and go help
8 with something, you know -
9 Q. So you were talked out of your personal
10 enrichment and into this?
11 A. Yes. All of which was, Rita I need your
12 help.
13 Q. All right.
14 A. Go talk to Arthur. He will tell you what is
15 happening.
16 Q. Back to your first meeting of Lisa and
17 everybody that was in the room, was that during the day
18 or nighttime or what?
19 A. It was during the day. It was bright, sunny.
20 I don't know what time of day.
21 Q. Where was the room?
22 A. At the back of the Fort Harrison, in the area
23 referred to as the cabana.
24 Q. What floor was that?
25 A. The first floor.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 Q. First floor?
2 A. Ground level.
3 Q. Ground level, okay. Do you remember what
4 room it was? The third to the right, second to the
5 right?
6 A. Well, coming down the corridor in the Fort
7 Harrison, you know, the external corridor, you turn
8 right and it was the first room.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. It was one seventy-five, one seventy-eight.
11 Q. Was that a single-occupancy room?
12 A. It had two double beds in it.
13 Q. Okay. When you arrived, who was in the room?
14 A. Well, Lisa, plus the people I mentioned.
15 Q. That was Joan and Barbro?
16 A. And Heather.
17 Q. Sylvia?
18 A. I don't remember Sylvia being there.
19 Q. Okay. What was the purpose of that?
20 A. Well, there was - I believe it was Joan
21 Sullivan who was supposed to be at the door once I
22 arrived. See, all of these people had jobs they were
23 supposed to be doing. They just kind of dropped
24 everything to help Lisa, and one by one, Oliver Jarrot
25 was trying to find people who could be there on a
KANABAY & KANA BAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 stable basis, instead of just coming and going.
2 Q. Right.
3 A. So there were two beds in the room, you know,
4 double beds, and one across the room. Lisa was on that
5 bed, with perpetual extreme motion on her bed, her bed
6 was rocking all the time, and she was (indicating), and
7 she would get her fingernails in herself and face
8 (indicating), and people were taking her hands off her,
9 you know (indicating), trying to minimize the harm.
10 Q. And this first contact that you had with
11 Lisa, were there any signs, that you observed, of her
12 being an irrational person?
13 A. Irrational? She was like
14 Q. Did she know where she was?
15 A. I honestly don't know.
16 Q. All I can ask is what you know and if --
17 A. She wasn't saying anything that I could
18 recognize.
19 Q. She wasn't making complete sentences?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did that change?
22 A. No string of words like I could make any
23 sense out of, that had anything to do with the
24 environment or what she was doing or what she wanted or
25 anything.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 Q. Okay, from your first observation of her,
2 then, you would have to describe her as being somewhat
3 psychotic?
4 MR. LAURO: Hold on.
5 MR. MCGARRY: I am not asking for a
6 medical opinion.
7 MR. LAURO: That's a medical word that --
8 BY MR. MCGARRY:
9 Q. All right, let me ask it this way, from what
10 you observed, is there anything that you could tell was
11 physically wrong with her?
12 A. Well, because of what she had been doing, you
13 know, she looked banged up, scratched, scratches on her
14 face, her arms, her legs. Other people there got
15 gouged marks on their hands because they didn't get
16 away fast enough. I mean, she looked a mess.
17 Q. So what you were observing was a mental
18 situation? Can you testify to that?
19 MR. LAURO: I think she has testified to
20 mental and physical, but if the question is what the
21 mental impressions were, you can certainly describe
22 that, what you saw.
23 A. In my viewpoint?
24 MR. LAURO: Yeah.
25
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 BY MR. MCGARRY:
2 Q. I am just asking for your opinion. I am not
3 asking
4 MR. LAURO: It's not an opinion, he is
5 asking for your observations.
6 A. Well, just constantly picking, moving,
7 grabbing (indicating), flailing, kicking, sometimes
8 like grinding her head into the pillow. Like, Barbro
9 had a pillow. She would try to get it under her face,
10 because she was just grinding her face into it, the
11 pillow, you know.
12 BY MR. MCGARRY:
13 Q. How were the care-givers and yourself coping
14 with this, dealing with this, if you were?
15 A. Well, speaking for myself --
16 Q. And as well as your observations of the
17 people around you.
18 A. I was kind of horrified by what was going on.
19 I had never seen anything like that. It was clear to
20 me that we had to, you know, interfere with her
21 attempts to hurt herself and hurt us. She was, like,
22 intent on digging in those fingernails and gouging at
23 us and --
24 Q. Did you have--
25 MR. LAURO: Hold on. I am sorry, I know
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 you are trying to go on, but several times she has
2 tried to complete a sentence and you are interrupting
3 her. Go ahead.
4 A. I lost track.
5 BY MR. MCGARRY:
6 Q. The fingernails.
7 A. She was like - what I saw about her
8 behavior, how she was behaving?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. Extremely violent, like bent on -- she seemed
11 like determined to do harm to herself and us and the
12 physical objects in the room. Right before I arrived,
13 everything but the beds and a dresser had been moved
14 out of the area, a mirror taken off the back of the
15 wall, which was already broken, the chandelier was
16 taken down, because there was a period of time she
17 would fall, and she could get her arms around
18 (indicating) anything breakable, anything sharp.
19 Anything that could be used to hurt someone or herself
20 was taken out; no cords, no cable, no electrical
21 equipment, nothing.
22 Q. All right. Did you have any conversations
23 with the other care-givers that were there that first
24 day you were there that made you think this was the
25 type of behavior that had gone on the previous week she
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 was there?
2 A. Actually, we didn't have any conversations.
3 We felt she had enough going on without having
4 conversations around her and --
5 Q. Was there a reason for that?
6 MR. LAURO: Mark, I am sorry, again, I
7 think she is trying to finish a sentence. You just
8 need to let her finish.
9 A. We felt that if we had conversations around
10 her, talking about the kids and the dogs or what was on
11 TV or something like that, it would just give her more
12 to be upset about, so we didn't talk.
13 We might whisper something to each other or
14 use sign language, like when she had someone - I don't
15 remember which person it was, like, snapping my finger
16 (indicating) to get the person's attention to help get
17 her loose from what she was holding onto, but,
18 basically, you know, we didn't just jabber, by any
19 means. We just felt like it would be that much more
20 stuff that she didn't need to hear.
21 BY MR. MCGARRY:
22 Q. Okay, my question is, by the signs, is that
23 something you came up with or is that something that
24 you were briefed on or is the normal course of the
25 religion that you practice, that somebody is going
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 through an episode like this, that that's the way it's
2 handled?
3 A. There is a dianetics belief that if somebody
4 is hurt or sick, you don't talk around them, we just
5 let them--
6 Q. That's basically my question.
7 A. That's the way it is.
8 Q. Was that practiced, then, generally, around
9 Lisa?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. Most of the time you were there?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All the time you were there?
14 A. One time I spoke to her, because she--
15 should I tell you about it?
16 Q. Sure.
17 A. This was after many days of me being with
18 her. She had been asleep. She was on this bed over
19 here, and I was sitting on this bed right here
20 (indicating), and she had her back a little bit to me,
21 and she stretched her arm out to me (indicating),
22 looked at me, and said something like, You are being
23 so good to me and I don't even know what your name is,
24 and I went over and I took her hand and I told her what
25 my name was, and at the moment she spoke was so, you
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 know, you know, it was like she was so there, you
2 know, so lucid, understanding, that I thought she was
3 okay. I thought she was all right now. I went and
4 took her hand and spoke to her, and I don't know what
5 she did next, but I instantly realized she was not
6 okay, that she went right back to where she was.
7 Q. Do you remember what day that was?
8 A. I don't. It took me a long time to even
9 remember what she said to me. I just know there had
10 been a very positive turn of events. I was really
11 excited about it.
12 Q. All right, moving on. After the first
13 meeting you had when there were numerous people there,
14 was there a schedule worked out with you and the other
15 girls?
16 A. Yeah, I think it took a few days to get that
17 worked out. In fact, when we found these people that
18 could be there, away from there job for a while - I was
19 easy. I was there. I was available.
20 Q. I take it Lisa was never left by herself?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Not at all?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Was it usually one or more girls in the room?
25 A. That period of time that she was really,
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
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1 really violent, it was several, three or four of us.
2 Then when she settled down, there were two of us
3 always, and I would step outside the door - I smoke,
4 so I would go outside to have a cigarette, and we just
5 relieved each other, you know, for fifteen, twenty
6 minutes at a time, but never for long, any further away
7 than to run next-door.
8 Q. Who was in charge of planning her diet?
9 A. I don't know. I mean, I knew she wasn't
10 eating. I can tell you what I did. I was just -- I
11 had some protein powder in my purse, so I started - I
12 got some bananas and mashed them and put the protein
13 powder in it and started feeding her that, because she
14 wasn't eating.
15 They were bringing food from the dining room,
16 that I remember, like a sandwich or something for lunch
17 and eggs for breakfast, and she wouldn't chew it and
18 swallow it, so it was, like, useless. You could put it
19 in her mouth and she just wouldn't eat it, she would
20 spit it out, so I got - mashed the bananas and put the
21 protein powder in it and started feeding it to her, and
22 she liked bananas, she really liked that, so she ate
23 that and she got some protein.
24 Q. Did she receive any medicine, that you are
25 aware of?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
26
1 A. Yeah. They were sleeping pills. I don't
2 know. She was staying awake almost always.
3 Q. Who administered those?
4 A. I did, Laura probably had, and Heather,
5 possibly. They were, like, items from the health food
6 store that people used to help them sleep, and I had a
7 product -- it's something that helps a person relax.
8 Q. Was there any conventional medicine that was
9 administered? When I say conventional, something that
10 wasn't --
11 A. You mean like a prescription? Not to my
12 knowledge. I didn't have anything. There was another
13 thing, a more common thing that Scientologists use to
14 relax or sleep, to decrease muscle attention, and its
15 called CalMag (phonetic), calcium magnesium. Its
16 just a drink.
17 Q. How about chloral hydrate, are you familiar
18 with that?
19 A. I am familiar with the name. I honestly
20 don't know exactly what it is.
21 Q. Were you ever present when that was
22 administered to her?
23 A. I am not sure what it is, if it's a tablet or
24 what.
25 MR. LAURO: No, I think the question Mr.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
27
1 McGarry asked, were you ever present when it was given
2 or did you ever give it to her?
3 A. I am not sure what it is. There was a white,
4 a clear gel capsule that I remember. I don't know if
5 that was given.
6 BY MR. MCGARRY:
7 Q. Who brought that to her?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. Who gave that to her, if you know?
10 A. I don't know. I think I might have given her
11 some.
12 Q. Going on with that item you described, did
13 that come from a bottle or an individual pill or did
14 somebody give you a prescription, that you know of?
15 A. That wasn't a prescription. It was a little
16 plastic bottle, like vitamins.
17 Q. Of the people that you named, are you aware
18 of anybody that had medical training?
19 A. I think Laura had been a nurse or something.
20 Q. Did you ever have any conversation with her
21 about that?
22 A. I don't think so. I think other people said
23 it to me.
24 Q. Go ahead.
25 A. She was another person that was brand new to
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
28
1 me at that time, until I got to know her later. I
2 wasn't terribly aware of her at that time. Once it
3 settled down to four people, she was one that relieved
4 me, so we would see each other in passing. I didn't
5 really know her.
6 Q. Did she speak English?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. She does?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Janis Johnson, did you ever meet her?
11 A. Oh, yeah.
12 Q. Okay, did she --
13 A. At that point she was also pretty new to me,
14 but I talked to her over the phone.
15 Q. Did you ever see her with Lisa?
16 A. After it settled down to the basic routine
17 people, yeah, she would come in. I think I would see
18 her a couple of times a night. I didn't really talk to
19 her...
20 Q. How long would she stay when she visited?
21 A. Ten, fifteen minutes.
22 Q. To the best of your observation with Lisa,
23 did she ever call you by name or anyone?
24 A. No, never called me by name or anything.
25 The episode I told you about when she thanked me for
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
29
1 being so good to her, that's the only time I ever heard
2 her say a sentence that made any sense or that I could
3 make any sense out of. I never heard her call anybody
4 by name or her acknowledge my presence. Sometimes she
5 would make eye contact with you, like she really saw
6 you.
7 Q. Did you ever see Janis administer any
8 medical treatment to her?
9 MR. LAURO: Wait, I am not sure of any
10 medical treatment. Did you ever see Janis do anything
11 to Lisa?
12 A. Well, one time when I couldn't get Lisa to
13 swallow, wouldn't take any of her sleeping pills,
14 Janis came on and helped. This was when Janis came
15 on to - she wouldn't go to sleep, you know, but
16 fifteen, twenty minutes, maybe an hour, and then it was
17 just, you know, complete activity and scratching at
18 herself and all this stuff (indicating). I knew she
19 had to sleep, so Janis helped with that, and then she
20 went to sleep really easily, whereas I couldn't get her
21 to.
22 BY MR. MCGARRY:
23 Q. Records were kept?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. Okay, can you elaborate how that was
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
30
1 established?
2 A. I know that every time I went out, I would
3 just write down what happened, how long she had slept,
4 any particular meeting, how much I had been able to get
5 her to eat or to drink. I would just go in the room
6 next-door, which was a housekeeping, you know, area
7 that we just kind of took over, and would write down
8 what occurred.
9 Q. Was this -- go ahead.
10 A. And then I would just leave it there and go
11 back and write on it every time I would come in.
12 Q. Okay, did you do this at somebody's direction
13 or--
14 A. Just my own direction.
15 Q. Did anybody else do that?
16 A. I would think that everybody. I would assume
17 that everybody did. It's just kind of a routine thing
18 with us, to let other people know what is happening.
19 Q. If you had to describe somebody that was in
20 charge of this, for lack of better terms, watch, during
21 this period of time, who was in charge?
22 A. I tell you, the people I turned to for help
23 were Alain Kartuzinski and Janis Johnson.
24 Q. And this Oliver?
25 A. Oliver.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
31
1 Q. Is he out of it at this point?
2 A. That's correct, to my knowledge, that's
3 correct. I never saw him in the room.
4 Q. All right, did Lisa have - who was Lisa's
5 senior?
6 A. Well, she wasn't a seeded (phonetic) member
7 she worked for -- I am pretty sure she worked for -
8 Q. Go back to your first word. What was it?
9 A. She was not a seated (phonetic) member, so
10 she didn't necessarily - she didn't have the same
11 structure that we have.
12 Q. Okay. Did she have a minister?
13 A. She would have, but I don't know who it was.
14 I never knew her before this period of time.
15 Q. Did she have an auditor?
16 A. She would have, but I don't know who it was.
17 Q. Are you aware of whether or not somebody
18 could even participate in any counseling or auditing
19 under the circumstances that she was in?
20 A. No, not at all. You really do have to
21 participate. It's not something that is done to you.
22 I mean, you have to be completely involved in it.
23 Q. Who is the person that gathered up the
24 reports after they were written?
25 A. I actually don't know. I would just leave
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
32
1 mine there. I would start a new one at the beginning
2 of my shift every day. After sixteen hours, you were
3 just ready to go to bed.
4 Q. So your shift was
5 A. Sixteen hours.
6 Q. Sixteen hours?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. All right, I am going to start referring to
9 these things and I have got a copy. I have to clear up
10 some terminology. What -- if one of these was written
11 to SNRC/S, what is that?
12 A. SNR stands for senior and CS stands for case
13 supervisor, and that would be Alain Kartuzinski.
14 Q. So these reports are entitled to go to him?
15 A. Yeah.
16 MR. LAURO: Is it Elaine?
17 A. Alain, A L A I N.
18 BY MR. MCGARRY:
19 Q. Okay, who is the MED., office of OF., OFF.
20 manager?
21 A. It could be medical office manager. That
22 would be Janis, except that's the wrong title. Its
23 medical liaison office.
24 Q. Okay, so to the best of your recollection,
25 how many sixteen-hour shifts would you put in after you
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
33
1 met with her?
2 A. I would say it was like a blur. I would say
3 a minimum of three. I am not sure. A minimum of
4 three.
5 Q. And you indicated previously that you were
6 with somebody?
7 A. Right.
8 Q. And in shifts of two people?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. I know we are going back, but as best as you
11 can, who would have been your companion? Was it
12 different every day?
13 A. It was the same. I know definitely Sylvia,
14 or most of the time. Like, we were there at the same
15 hours.
16 Q. You indicated she is still there?
17 A. Sylvia, no, she is not.
18 Q. She left? Where is she?
19 A. I believe she is in Mexico, City of Mexico.
20 Q. So Laura and her both left?
21 A. Um-hum.
22 Q. Do you know why she left?
23 A. Sylvia - there were two different reasons
24 for each of them, or a different reason for each.
25 Sylvia needed to have a recess, so she went back to her
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
34
1 country, and couldn't handle it, so she stayed there
2 and is working in a seated (phonetic) unit there.
3 Laura had a teenage son who was unhappy here, and she
4 needed to go home, take him home. She thought she
5 could help him with his father, and nothing worked. It
6 didn't work. He is a teenager, so she stayed there.
7 Q. Is there a church in Mexico City, as well?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Before we get to these things, if Lisa -- you
10 say every now and then she would have episodes where
11 she would -- if she were to get up and try and walk out
12 of that room, what would happen? Did she ever do that?
13 A. No, she didn't.
14 Q. She never got up?
15 A. She would get up and walk around, but she
16 never went to the door.
17 Q. Okay, and obviously, because you have
18 indicated she only had one sentence of intelligent
19 conversation with you in your three- or four-day shift
20 with her, she never indicated one way or another
21 whether she wanted to be there or wanted to be
22 somewhere else, to you?
23 A. Well, other than - other than at times she
24 just woke up and thanked me for taking care of her, for
25 being so good to her. I forget exactly what she said.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
35
1 That, to me, indicated thank you for doing this, you
2 know.
3 Q. Okay. Maybe I will come over there and I
4 will show you some documents that we have got. They
5 were provided to me by some of the lawyers that
6 represent the Church. Do you recognize that
7 handwriting there (indicating)?
8 A. No, I don't. Maybe it's signed. It's by
9 somebody whose English is a second language, but I am
10 not sure who.
11 MR. LAURO: Mark, do you want to
12 identify for the record? Its number Five six.
13 MR MCGARRY: Urn-hum.
14 BY MR. MCGARRY:
15 Q. Okay, five seven (indicating).
16 A. Yeah. Oh, this is from the medical office
17 manager. I guess that would be Laura that
18 MR. LAURO: Well, don't guess. You have
19 to not speculate. Mr. McGarry is looking for your best
20 recollection.
21 A. I don't know. I am not for sure.
22 BY MR. MCGARRY:
23 Q. All right, one five eight (indicating)?
24 A. No, I haven't seen it before.
25 Q. And one five nine (indicating) is a
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
36
1 continuation?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. One six zero (indicating), have you ever seen
4 that?
5 A. No. This one is signed (indicating), Suzanna
6 Reich. R E I C H.
7 MR. LAURO: That's one three six,
8 correct?
9 BY MR. MCGARRY:
10 Q. Now, was she on another watch other than
11 yours?
12 A. Yeah. I knew her name, but I didn't know
13 her.
14 Q. Is this your handwriting (indicating)?
15 A. No.
16 Q. That's one three eight. Okay, this is from
17 Valerie (indicating)?
18 A. Right.
19 Q. This is not numbered at the bottom, but it's
20 labeled. It's not numbered at the bottom. It was cut
21 off.
22 MR. LAURO: It may be one thirty-nine.
23 I am not sure.
24 BY MR. MCGARRY:
25 Q. Yeah, because there is one forty. Do you
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
37
1 recognize that handwriting (indicating)?
2 A. No.
3 Q. That's one four one. Do you recognize the
4 handwriting?
5 A. No.
6 Q. One four two. That's a bad copy. Can you
7 recognize that (indicating)?
8 A. Is the word staff followed by something
9 illegible.
10 Q. That's not your handwriting (indicating)?
11 A. No.
12 MR. ANDREWS: Could that be staff
13 Chapman.
14 BY MR. MCGARRY:
15 Q. Staff Chapman?
16 A. Oh, yeah. That's my writing (indicating).
17 Q. That's yours? This is dated November 26.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. This one - where are the - can you tell
20 where in this week this documentation would have come
21 from, as far as your first, second, third,
22 fifth watch, if you know?
23 A. I don't know. The fact that it says, I want
24 to correct the data regarding what Lisa actually ate
25 today, is not the first one, but that's
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
38
1 Q. This was written back on November 26?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. So if you said I want to correct the date --
4 A. The data.
5 Q. The data regarding what Lisa actually ate
6 today, there would be another report besides this one?
7 A. Yes. I mean, it seems that way to me.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. I don't know, maybe it was - I told somebody
10 that.
11 Q. This also describes some of the stuff you
12 were talking about in document one forty-five about how
13 the bananas -- having a hard time eating?
14 A. Yes, the protein powder, started getting
15 protein shakes. I wanted to get something into her.
16 Q. Who was paying for her meals?
17 A. I believe she was herself.
18 Q. How does that work if she was?
19 A. Well, I guess - it's a hotel and a religious
20 retreat, and they come and pay for their hotel room and
21 eat in the restaurant.
22 Q. So she had an account?
23 A. Yeah, probably.
24 Q. If you know.
25 A. I don't know. Probably.
KANABAY & KAHABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
39
1 Q. What does that mean (indicating)?
2 A. It's a triangle, a very basic symbol, and
3 it stands for a communication. It's a Scientology --
4 like data that a person can use, communication,
5 agreement to have a better understanding of friendship
6 of people.
7 Q. Is this your handwriting (indicating)?
8 A. I think so.
9 Q. This is paper one forty-six. I guess that
10 was just the tail end of this one here (indicating).
11 MR. LAURO: Or could that have been a
12 cover sheet, one forty-six?
13 A. I don't remember doing that.
14 BY MR. MCGARRY:
15 Q. Okay. This is one forty-seven (indicating).
16 A. Yeah.
17 Q. Do you recognize this one here (indicating)?
18 MR. LAURO: Two sixteen.
19 A. Yeah. Yes, to me. That would be Emma. She
20 wrote that.
21 BY MR. MCGARRY:
22 Q. This is two fifteen - no, it looks like we
23 have another one.
24 MR. LAURO: One forty-eight.
25
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
40
1 BY MR. MCGARRY:
2 Q. For the purpose of the record, this document
3 is describing some tablets, gel tablets?
4 A. Capsules, two little white capsules.
5 Q. Is this you also (indicating)?
6 A. Yep.
7 MR. LAURO: That's unmarked.
8 BY MR. MCGARRY:
9 Q. It looks like a continuation of the previous
10 one. Well, it might be -- it looks like another one.
11 MR. LAURO: But the document begins up
12 on top with Dear Sir. It looks like nine p.m. to one
13 a.m.
14 BY MR. MCGARRY:
15 Q. This document (indicating)?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Is this you also (indicating)?
18 A. Um-hum.
19 Q. Do you recognize this, two fourteen?
20 A. I have seen her (indicating).
21 Q. (Indicating)?
22 A. That's my writing.
23 Q. That's a continuation of that one
24 (indicating)?
25 A. Oh, it looks like that is a continuation of
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
41
1 this, but I never signed it.
2 Q. This one also (indicating)?
3 A. I mean, it could be a continuation.
4 MR. LAURO: I think we should identify
5 this. One fifty-four.
6 MR. MCGARRY: One fifty-four, finishes
7 up on one fifty-five.
8 BY MR. MCGARRY:
9 Q. Who is Alice Cangrondel?
10 A. I didn't even know her. I don't know. I
11 didn't know.
12 Q. Were you aware of her being involved in the
13 watch?
14 A. No, I never saw her there.
15 Q. In one of your notes here, I think it's on
16 one forty-five, you wrote that she was very in PT plus
17 interested in rest. What does that mean?
18 A. Are we talking about Lisa?
19 Q. Yeah, I am sure you are talking about Lisa.
20 The last sentence of that page (indicating), I didn't
21 understand PT plus.
22 A. Okay, it says then she was very in PT and
23 interested in -- PT is an abbreviation for us, means in
24 present time. Its like a person is like you look
25 them in the eye and you know they are aware of you.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
42
1 mean the bare minimum, you know they are aware of you.
2 Usually they are aware of something. They are in
3 communication with you.
4 I still have some -- sometimes I would get a
5 little rubber ball and rub it (indicating) to get her
6 to swallow and make her swallow, so I was trying to get
7 her interested in something like that, and I guess I am
8 saying she was, like paying attention to me, trying to
9 cooperate.
10 Q. Were you present when her fingernails were
11 trimmed?
12 A. I did that. I felt -- I had wanted to do it
13 for days, because, I mean, it was a hazard to her and
14 us, but she wouldn't let me. You know, I couldn't
15 manage it, and I planned it out. Just one day I just
16 washed her hands really well when she was asleep. I
17 kind of soaked them, because she would get feces and
18 stuff like that under her nails, and when they were
19 real soft, I clipped them.
20 Q. Okay, I was curious, as best that I can put
21 together these documents and put together a time frame,
22 it looks like you have the last written word on this.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you know why that is?
25 A. I am very much an administrator, keeper of
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
43
1 records. I have always done that sort of thing.
2 Q. Do you recall how long after your last watch
3 was that she ended up expiring?
4 A. I left that same day about five p.m. and went
5 to sleep and -
6 Q. You say day. What day, the day she died?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Were you on watch that day?
9 A. I was there earlier that day. We were, like,
10 in the midst of getting her to the shower, getting her
11 cleaned up. She had spit a lot of food out and she had
12 food in her hair, was dirty.
13 Q. That was December 5th?
14 A. I don't know the date. I don't even know the
15 day of the week, to tell you the truth.
16 Q. Well, to help you out, if December 5th is the
17 day she was taken to the hospital in Port Richey, that
18 was in the later evening hours, is that correct?
19 MR. ANDREWS: Yes.
20 BY MR. MCGARRY:
21 Q. So you are indicating today you were part of
22 the watch on December 5th?
23 A. Oh, yeah. I left a little bit late because
24 Laura was a little bit late arriving, and Heather and I
25 were helping her get a shower.
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
44
1 Q. What hours was that shift?
2 A. I think I started around midnight.
3 Q. The previous day, the 4th?
4 A. Well, I think my usual.
5 Q. Now, did you document that event?
6 A. I don't believe I did. Laura was late, and I
7 was upset because she was late and I was so tired. I
8 think I just went straight to bed and decided I would
9 do my write-up later, and then I was awakened later and
10 they said we need you to come to the conference room
11 and when I got there, that's when I found out. I
12 didn't know it.
13 Q. That was that evening?
14 A. I would say it was ten thirtyish or so.
15 Q. Who summoned you to the conference room?
16 A. Oh, I know it was one of the security guards.
17 I don't know who. He just knocked on the door.
18 Q. At your apartment?
19 A. No, I was staying in another cabana, the last
20 room in that place.
21 Q. You went to the conference room that evening?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Who was there?
24 A. All the people that I recognized as being
25 involved with Lisa, plus others that I didn't know that
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
45
1 were involved. It turned out later that it was
2 everybody who had any contact with her.
3 Q. Were summoned to the conference room?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Who was the summoner?
6 A. I don't really know that. The first person I
7 spoke to was Paul Kellerhous, I think.
8 Q. He is a security guard?
9 A. Yeah. I know he and I had exchanged one
10 sentence each. I said, But who is taking care of her
11 right now? And, you know, he was shocked and he said,
12 She died, and, I mean, I was shocked even more. I
13 didn't know it.
14 Q. Well, what was the purpose of you being
15 summoned?
16 A. That she had died of an infectious disease.
17 That was believed to be the cause of death, which would
18 mean every one of us was exposed and needed to be
19 quarantined, which was being arranged. We all got in
20 the room right there and we didn't leave, and in the
21 apartment complex where we lived, people were, you
22 know, moving out of their apartments to make room for
23 all of us to be together.
24 Q. Who was the speaker? Who was the one that
25 said that?
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
46
1 A. I don't remember.
2 Q. Would that have been Alain Kartuzinski?
3 A. I don't remember him being there. I don't
4 think he was in direct contact with Lisa, so he
5 wouldn't be there.
6 Q. Was Janis Johnson there?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q: Laura Arrunado?
9 I don't remember her, but she would have had
10 to be there.
11 Q. And do you remember what was said at that
12 conference?
13 A. I think it was kind of chaotic, actually, but
14 I don't remember. It was some time between the time I
15 was helping Lisa get her bath and the time I was
16 awakened, she had died and was taken to the hospital,
17 and everybody who had been around her -- I mean,
18 because the death was believed to be meningitis,
19 everybody was going to be quarantined to keep it from
20 spreading all over the place. It was the arrangements
21 for that. We have an apartment complex and we were
22 told, hey, we need your apartment, you guys can go
23 sleep there tonight. You know, there were about
24 thirty of us. It was like a big, big group.
25 Q. So were you asked to write any additional
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
47
1 reports for that?
2 A. Yes, it would seem likely, but I don't
3 remember doing it. It would seem like something that
4 we would do, but I don't remember doing that.
5 Q. If you did, do you remember who would have
6 asked?
7 A. I don't remember being asked. I don't
8 remember doing it.
9 Q. Well, I will try to get this thing moved on.
10 I kind of need to go back over some things since we
11 don't have any written records, okay? If we can, pick
12 through days, the best you can recall right now,
13 because up until this moment you don't have any idea
14 what happened to her on the last day. You are the
15 first person that remembers seeing her. As
16 painstakingly as we can, let's go minute by minute, as
17 best as you can recall, and let's restructure that. As
18 best you can recall -- if you don't recall something,
19 of course, that's fine. All right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. When did you first take that shift?
22 A. I believe it was midnight.
23 Q. Okay, who was with you?
24 A. I know later in the day it was Heather, and
25 it seems like it didn't work out for Sylvia to stay on
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
48
1 the shift. She was just -- she was extremely
2 depressed. She had been crying. She left for the day.
3 I know she was replaced. I think it was Heather that
4 just stepped in and took her place. No, it wasn't.
5 Heather stayed when I left. We must have had an
6 overlapping, like four hours or something.
7 Q. Okay.
8 MR. LAURO: Do you remember who it was
9 at twelve o'clock midnight that you showed up with that
10 day?
11 A. No, I don't. I would have just said Sylvia,
12 but then I know at some point --
13 MR. LAURO: Could it have been Laura?
14 A. No, because Laura came at five. Maybe Sylvia
15 did.
16 BY MR. MCGARRY:
17 Q. All right, what was Lisa doing when you got
18 there?
19 A. When I got there, I don't know. It was
20 sometime during the night she had diarrhea, and I had
21 the clean-up project, and her bedding and her clothes
22 and her, and I started cleaning the bedroom.
23 Q. During that episode, did she ever acknowledge
24 your presence, as best you can recall?
25 A. I don't remember, period. Oh, yeah, yeah,
KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
49
1 she, you know, she didn't like it, yeah.
2 Q. Her eyes were open as you were doing things?
3 A. Oh, yeah, yeah, I think, like, fighting back.
4 Q. Okay, well, that's what I am asking, if she
5 did something.
6 A. Oh, yeah, yes.
7 Q. So she had a change of clothes there?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. And, to your knowledge, when in the night was
10 all that stuff taking place?
11 A. All I can tell you, it was dark outside
12 still. It was possibly early, early morning.
13 Q. And you were successful in changing her
14 clothes and bed sheets?
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. Okay. She was physically still able to
17 walk?
18 A. Yes, most definitely.
19 Q. Was she -- did you take her to the bathroom?
20 A. No, never at any point did she go to the
21 bathroom. She went just right where she was.
22 Q. So all of this physical interaction with Lisa
23 is taking place on her bed?
24 A. Pretty much on the bed, yeah.
25 MR. LAURO: I think Mr. McGarry asked
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1 about the cleanup.
2 A. That was done on the bed.
3 BY MR. MCGARRY:
4 Q. Did she eat or drink anything, that you
5 recall, that night?
6 A. I think I was, like, constantly trying to get
7 her to eat or drink something, so based on that, I
8 would say yes, but I couldn't tell you what. I know I
9 had herbal tea and water and the protein shake and
10 milk.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. And I was, like, pestering her to eat or
13 drink all the time.
14 Q. What is the next thing you recall after
15 changing her clothes?
16 A. Well, I think she slept very soundly for a
17 time, five or six hours, something like that, not the
18 little two-hour spans.
19 Q. Right.
20 A. And then one of -- I don't remember in
21 detail. I remember after that, you know, after knowing
22 she had made a real mess during the night, we just
23 cleaned her up the best we could on the bed. We
24 cleaned her up, washed her hair.
25 Q. That was on the 5th?
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1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. In the morning or afternoon?
3 A. Afternoon. I would say it probably started
4 around three thirty.
5 Q. Up until three thirty, what was she doing?
6 A. I can't tell you like exact actions, but like
7 her usual thing would be to lie on the bed. I had made
8 the bed about a foot and a half from the wall to
9 discourage this particular action. She got on the bed,
10 would kick her legs, flailed her legs, heels, knees
11 against the wall, and just constant batter (indicating)
12 with her body, and she -
13 Q. That's on December 5th in the morning?
14 A. That was, like, routine behavior all along.
15 Q. Specifically December 5th?
16 A. I couldn't say that. I remember her sleeping
17 better than she had slept before, maybe five-ish hours
18 or something like that. I felt kind of excited about
19 that, because she just didn't sleep good.
20 Q. Did she eat breakfast or lunch, or if there
21 was such a schedule?
22 A. The schedule was anytime she was awake and
23 willing, I would feed her. I would offer her food
24 very, very, very often, and if she took it, we would go
25 (indicating).
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1 Q. Specifically, now, December 5th, that
2 morning?
3 A. The reason I wanted to bathe her was because
4 she had food in her hair, she spit food out, so, yeah,
5 it must -I must have been at least working with her
6 to get her to eat, but she definitely spit a lot of it
7 out and was dirty.
8 Q. Okay. Describe the procedure, if you could,
9 bathing.
10 MR. LAURO: Did she walk to the
11 bathroom? Did somebody carry her?
12 A. She walked. She was dirty again. That's why
13 she was bathed again. That was the main reason. I
14 think she had more diarrhea. I forgot about that.
15 BY MR. MCGARRY:
16 Q. On December 5th?
17 A. Yeah, yeah. Okay, she was dirty again. She
18 had also taken off her clothes and was just moving
19 around on the bed naked, and the bed was all dirty with
20 the diarrhea, and we got her up and took her into the
21 shower, except that I realized before we got to the
22 shower there was this mess, so I just stood with her at
23 the end of the bed and had quickly cleaned up the bed.
24 I believe that's the way it occurred. I had forgotten
25 about her being that dirty at that moment.
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1 Q. But with the previous watches, there were no
2 problems?
3 A. Right, yeah.
4 Q. All right. After the bath?
5 A. I left in the middle of it. Laura arrived.
6 She was late. I was really tired. I was very tired,
7 so Laura just took over.
8 Q. And this other person that was with you
9 possibly was Sylvia?
10 A. It was definitely Heather at that time.
11 Q. Heather?
12 A. Yeah, Heather was with me from sometime in
13 the afternoon.
14 Q. All right. Let's go back there. You don't
15 recall who the starter was with you on that watch, or
16 you think it was Sylvia?
17 A. I am thinking it was Sylvia, but I also have
18 the idea she, you know, was told she didn't have to be
19 there long because she couldn't hack it, but I don't
20 remember who took her place.
21 Q. Well, you just said Heather took her place.
22 A. I mean during that whole period of hours,
23 Heather was the one who came -- maybe I am wrong about
24 that --
25 Q. Well, I don't know the people and --
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1 A. I know positively Heather was there.
2 Q. December 5th?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. In the afternoon?
5 A. Yeah, helping me give her a bath.
6 Q. Okay.
7 MR. LAURO: You don't know exactly when
8 Heather came in?
9 A. No, and I don't remember if Sylvia actually
10 made it all the way through or had to be, you know --
11 BY MR. MCGARRY:
12 Q. So that is it for you after the bath?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Well, mid-bath.
16 Q. All right, and that's the last contact you
17 had with Lisa McPherson?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. If you know, can you tell me why, after being
20 so diligent on these other watches, that you didn't
21 make a report on the last one?
22 A. I think it was something about -- I don't
23 know, I didn't think about it. Definitely, it's unlike
24 me, because I am a real detailed person. I was just,
25 like, extremely tired. I don't know.
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1 Q. But it's your recollection that you did not
2 make a report?
3 A. No.
4 Q. If you did make a report, could you have made
5 a report and we just haven't gotten it, is that a
6 possibility?
7 A. It would seem like I would have done my
8 usual, gone out for a cigarette and made notes, but I
9 do know she slept a lot that particular -- well, after
10 -- I don't exactly remember writing it up, I don't.
11 Q. Okay, and other than the conference you had
12 that evening --
13 A. That was it. I came to this room full of
14 people and was told that she had died.
15 MR. MCGARRY: Okay, the detectives here
16 would like to ask you a couple of questions, I am sure.
17 MR. LAURO: Could we take a two-minute
18 break? She has been going for about an hour and a
19 half.
20 MR. MCGARRY: Sure, that will be fine.
21 (Whereupon a recess was taken).
22 MR. LAURO: Before we get started, Ms.
23 Boykin wants to verify one point about the last line,
24 whether she had any recollection of writing the report.
25 Why don't you just explain on the record what your best
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1 recollection is?
2 A. It would have been very like me to write a
3 report.
4 BY MR. MCGARRY:
5 Q. To have written a report?
6 A. Yeah. I just was extremely tired. I don't
7 know.
8 MR. MCGARRY: The reason why I was
9 asking, we asked for it.
10 MR. LAURO: I understand, but that's why
11 I want her to specifically clarify that, because I
12 don't know if she really, on the record, described her
13 best recollection as opposed to, well, the report is
14 not here, maybe I didn't do it.
15 BY MR. MCGARRY:
16 Q. But your recollection is you did do it?
17 A. No, no. I mean, it's very possible I decided
18 to do it in the morning. You know, morning, to me, was
19 after sleeping eight hours, but then as it turned out,
20 she passed away during the night, and I was not
21 returning to take care of her and writing the report.
22 Q. I see what you are saying.
23 A. I think it's really unlike me to not do it.
24 Q. But you still don't know whether you did or
25 not?
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1 A. No.
2 MR. MCGARRY: All right, we are back on
3 the record
4 MR. LAURO: No, that was on the record.
5 EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. ANDREWS:
7 Q. Real quickly, do you think that maybe you
8 wrote a report on the 4th? Were you there the 4th,
9 too? The 5th was the day she died.
10 A. I was there routinely for several days.
11 Q. Like a sixteen-hour shift every day, so
12 sixteen on and then eight off?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. We are missing a report on the 4th, too, and
15 this is a possibility, that -- I know Mr. Weinberg
16 is getting these from the Church, so there is a
17 possibility the reports are written, we just haven't
18 gotten them. I wanted to check back with Mr. Fugate in
19 an attempt to remind him of these two days and maybe
20 they can research it further. I don't show a report
21 written from you on the 4th, which is very unusual.
22 That's the last two days.
23 A. Right.
24 Q. Okay. I just wanted to ask you if you had
25 any medical training at all.
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1 A. I worked as a nursing assistant.
2 Q. Were you certified?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Back then you were not certified?
5 A. No.
6 Q. How long did you do that?
7 A. Gosh, for a couple of years in high school
8 and then in a hospital for just one year, and then an
9 acute hospital, where I would guess two or three years.
10 Q. Acute being?
11 A. Like critical.
12 Q. Critical care, okay. Now, would that have
13 been on your resume to the Church?
14 A. Um-hum.
15 Q. Can you remember who told you to keep records
16 or is that something that is in the Church's teachings?
17 A. It's something we do.
18 Q. In the Church?
19 A. Yeah, yeah.
20 Q. Let me ask you something, have you studied a
21 lot of L. Ron Hubbard's preachings? I don't want to -
22 A. Yeah, a lot, but nowhere near all. I am not
23 a thoroughly-trained person.
24 Q. The only thing I am getting at, the reason,
25 that in my investigation, that members of the Church
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1 write everything down, and I read a statement from L.
2 Ron Hubbard that said if it's not in writing, it's not
3 true. Are you familiar with that?
4 A. Yeah, that pertains to policy, basically.
5 What it means is don't just let someone just come and
6 tell you what to do. There is policy, you follow
7 policy.
8 Q. Okay. So if you were, say, investigating
9 something and you were talking to someone in the
10 Church, would you expect them to tell you the truth or
11 would you tell them to write it down so it would be the
12 truth?
13 A. I would expect them to tell me the truth.
14 Q. On one of your top statements, you addressed
15 it to the public MW. Who is that?
16 A. Its Emma Schermerhorn.
17 MR. MCGARRY: SCHERMER-HORN.
18 BY MR. ANDREWS:
19 Q. So you were addressing your report to her?
20 A. Yeah. That's the medical liaison officer
21 that worked with the public over there, for nonstaff,
22 which you coordinate with their physician.
23 Q. On the next one, you signed it Dear Sir. You
24 addressed it Dear Sir. Who was that to?
25 A. My thought would be it was going to Alain
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1 Kartuzinski. I never delivered any of them. I left
2 them on a shelf.
3 Q. Okay. Just like the police department, the
4 Church has their hierarchy or what we call in the
5 police department chain of command. You do, too, so I
6 am from the Navy and that's how we did it with the
7 Navy. You are assigned to this watch.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay, can you give me the chain of command
10 for you?
11 A. There really wasn't one. It was not that
12 completely unusual, other than getting it organized
13 enough that she had stable people there with her,
14 people who would -- like, knew her or knew what was
15 going on and would follow through. It wasn't that well
16 organized. I can tell you who I looked to for help.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. Janis.
19 Q. Janis Johnson?
20 A. I would ask her questions if I needed
21 some thing, I turned to her, and also Alain Kartuzinski.
22 Q. Okay. I noticed in reading your reports, and
23 this is my opinion just in reading the reports, you
24 tell me whether I am wrong or right, in reading your
25 reports, it felt to me that you were answering to
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1 Doctor Janis Johnson, which you indicated in your
2 report several times.
3 A. I was shown the reports the other day, and I
4 hadn't remembered calling her Doctor Johnson. I've
5 never met her before. I talked to her on the phone
6 from New York. I also was recuperating from a medical
7 problem when I came down. That's why it was so
8 convenient to say, okay, this is your turn to go get
9 some training, because I was recuperating, so I had
10 been talking to her on the phone and I thought she was
11 a doctor.
12 Q. I noticed in your log you said Doctor Janis
13 Johnson visited, and when I read it, it was like, in my
14 opinion, I thought you, as the author, were reporting
15 to her. Would that be a correct assumption on my part?
16 A. Given the information, for sure, yeah, and it
17 was also my understanding about her being a doctor.
18 It's the medical liaison office that we have there.
19 All the seated bases on the planet (phonetic) are
20 supposed to have them, but they don't. I have never
21 been around one before, so the person I spoke to on the
22 phone there I thought was the doctor, but what actually
23 goes on is we liaise with doctors, nutritionists,
24 chiropractors, whoever was taking care of the staff
25 member or the parishioner.
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1 Q. She is listed -- or she was listed as the
2 MW. Now you have listed Emma as the MW. What is the
3 difference?
4 A. Emma is the public medical liaison officer.
5 Q. Who Lisa was public?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. You are staff?
8 A. I am staff, and Janis was - she was one of
9 the medical liaison officers.
10 Q. Emma worked for her?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you happen to know, offhand, who was in
13 charge of the whole office, the whole medical liaison
14 office at that time?
15 A. At that time, I believe it was Janis. I
16 believe so.
17 Q. Janis?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. You said that a couple of days ago you saw
20 your reports.
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. Do you know who showed you those reports?
23 MR. LAURO: If it's somebody other than
24 me, but I need to know before -
25 MR. MCGARRY: Well, he is just asking -
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1 MR. ANDREWS: I am asking -- if you
2 showed her the reports, I can see that's an attorney
3 privilege. If she got them from somebody else who said
4 here is your reports, read them over, you are going to
5 a deposition tomorrow, that's what I am looking for.
6 MR. LAURO: Let me ask you privately
7 on that.
8 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record).
9 MR. LAURO: This goes to actually two
10 questions. Number one, I have no problem with you
11 identifying who showed reports to you, but the
12 conversations relating to those discussions may be
13 covered by a privilege.
14 MR. MCGARRY: I agree. He asked who.
15 MR. LAURO: Right, so you can tell the
16 detective who showed you those reports, but then any
17 conversations relating to those reports may be
18 privileged under various privileges, so why don't you
19 identify who showed you the reports and then we will go
20 from there?
21 A. Okay, I think it was Friday, a man who works
22 for the Church by the name of Len Farney. F A R N E Y,
23 I believe is how its spelled.
24 BY MR. ANDREWS:
25 Q. I want to ask, so we can identify this
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1 person, what is his title in the Church?
2 A. I don't know his real title. I know he works
3 for OSA, which stands for Office of Special Affairs.
4 Q. That's Brian Anderson, that area?
5 A. That area, yes.
6 Q. Thank you. You wrote a report dated November
7 29th, where you indicated at the top of the report, at
8 twelve thirty a.m. two of the little gel tablets and
9 then some small white tablets. Was there anyone on the
10 watch, another person on the watch with you then?
11 A. I would say there definitely would have been.
12 It was probably Sylvia.
13 Q. Okay, we got the last name of Sylvia?
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. Now, again, on that same date, four a.m., you
16 spoke with Doctor Johnson.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. It indicates in the report, "I spoke to
19 Doctor Johnson." Do you remember that conversation?
20 Do you remember what it was about?
21 A. No, not at all. If --
22 MR. LAURO: Maybe show her the report.
23 MR. MCGARRY: I don't know where we are
24 on that.
25 MR. ANDREWS: Let's go to November 29th.
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1 I have them numbered on mine, too.
2 BY MR. ANDREWS:
3 Q. Let's see, basically, it looks like you start
4 a log like I did when I was in the Navy, you did the
5 log by time, so you came by a specific point and you
6 write down twelve thirty and what was happening.
7 A. Yeah, I put what had occurred.
8 Q. Would you write all these together
9 (indicating)?
10 A. No, I would take a break, go out, get some
11 air, have a cigarette.
12 Q. Okay, and you have very good handwriting and
13 you are quite consistent with your spacing and
14 everything on unlined paper. Here you have added in
15 four o'clock. Between the two and three o'clock, you
16 have added four o'clock, "Spoke with Doctor Johnson
17 reference no real sleep."
18 A. Yeah. Yeah, that is out of place, because I
19 have an entry from three to six.
20 Q. Do you remember this entry specifically, why
21 you had stuck it kind of in there? Did you think it
22 was important, or did it come later that you entered it
23 in?
24 A. It definitely looks like I stuck it in, or I
25 would have put it in here (indicating). Oh, I see,
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1 between nine and six, slept real soundly. We were
2 always concerned about the fact she wasn't sleeping.
3 It's how is somebody going to function, get rested and
4 get well, they are just constantly awake and rolling
5 around.
6 Q. Now, I thought this was just a little bit
7 strange, you came down six to nine.
8 A. Right.
9 Q. You wrote this thing and then you kind of
10 summarized, like what we used to do in the log. You
11 know, we would put nothing happened in the log, and
12 then you summarized, which is very consistent, and then
13 you signed it Rita Boykin.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And then all of a sudden we are over here at
16 nine p.m., okay, and you have that one signed Dear Sir,
17 and you start at nine p.m.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. You start at nine p.m., and it says Friday.
20 Now, can you tell us if this is a continuation? I
21 thought it was a little consistent that you went six to
22 nine, and this is p.m., according to the time.
23 A. Are you sure it's p.m.?
24 Q. Well, twelve thirty you are coming on the
25 watch, because this here apparently is someone else who
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1 has written in here, right?
2 A. Oh, yeah, this is a report Wednesday night.
3 Q. So that would be consistent with you coming
4 on at midnight, so this is at twelve thirty, so this is
5 now nine a.m.?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. But the next time you pick up with any of
8 your information is nine p.m. Could there be another
9 report missing in between this possibly not supplied?
10 A. I don't know. It could have been that I was
11 let to go sleep. I was there maybe two or three times
12 before I settled into a routine schedule. That is what
13 we were going for, but it took some time to get that
14 arranged. This might be from one of the earlier times,
15 before it was like I was routinely scheduled to be
16 there.
17 Q. I looked at the only Friday night that you
18 could have been there, which I am thinking like the 1st
19 or something like that. This is the 29th, okay, and
20 then we are missing like the 30th, and then we go into
21 the 1st, which would be a Friday night, and then
22 nothing for the 4th and the 5th at all, and let me tell
23 you, there is a possibility we just don't have it and
24 maybe Mr. Fugate or Weinberg will be supplying it, so I
25 will go on, because it's tough, because I know it's
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1 been awhile.
2 A. I do need to tell you, I didn't give them to
3 anybody, I left them on the shelf and I expected them
4 to pick them up.
5 Q. And which apparently they were.
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. On the 29th, you have a log entry of one
8 a.m., Doctor Johnson just visited.
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Let me see if I can find that. Right here,
11 the next page (indicating), Doctor Johnson just visited
12 -- "Doctor Johnson just visited. Not possible for her
13 to have any more chloral hydrate." Did Doctor Johnson
14 ever tell you what chloral hydrate was?
15 A. I have an idea that it was something to help
16 her sleep. I don't know if it's a prescription.
17 Q. Now, my understanding -- I see in here where
18 you were squeezing these gel capsules into her throat
19 to make her get the medicine.
20 A. Yeah, when I saw the reports the other day, I
21 don't remember what it was--
22 Q. I went and looked at the drugstore, just to
23 help you out a little bit, it is a gel capsule of
24 chloral hydrate.
25 A. Little tiny--
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1 Q. Right. Would this surprise you if I told you
2 that this was a prescription drug and it could only be
3 dispensed by doctors? Would it surprise you or not?
4 Because you have Doctor Johnson involved.
5 A. I actually didn't know it was a prescription.
6 I don't know who prescribed it.
7 Q. Because the name chloral hydrate could have
8 fell right in there with Calmine (phonetic) and all of
9 that.
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. I think you answered this, but you talked
12 about her being soiled and having to clean up the bed
13 in several of your logs. I think you said she never
14 did get up and go to the restroom, she soiled the bed
15 at all times?
16 A. The bed or the floor or standing up when she
17 was walking around.
18 Q. Now, with your past experience in hospitals
19 and stuff when you were the aid, did you attribute that
20 to her mental state or was that her physical state that
21 was making her use the bed instead of the bathroom?
22 A. I don't know. I hesitate to answer that
23 because I don't have any medical training, I don't have
24 any psychiatric training or anything like that. It's
25 definitely not normal behavior, definitely not, I mean,
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1 the behavior that somebody would exhibit if they were
2 just padding around living their life.
3 Q. I was just thinking on the terms that most of
4 the indications in your report say diarrhea and, to me,
5 if I -- I don't have any medical training either. If I
6 am cleaning diarrhea up, that's not a normal physical
7 thing that you would be doing, cleaning up diarrhea.
8 A. I know about diarrhea on the last day, the
9 last night, and realized, I think she had probably just
10 had diarrhea before we gave her a bath, but before
11 that, it was regular bowel movements.
12 Q. And that she was doing in the bed, too?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. And I think you already said your watches
15 were about eighteen hours long?
16 MR. LAURO: Sixteen, I believe.
17 MR. MCGARRY: She said sixteen.
18 MR. ANDREWS: I am sorry, sixteen hours.
19 BY MR. ANDREWS:
20 Q. I just wanted to go to this page here and ask
21 you if this was your log, and you probably answered,
22 but I was trying to cover it across the table. "Eleven
23 a.m., she is asleep. Doctor Johnson was here and gave
24 her two chloral hydrates. I believe she got the entire
25 amount in each capsule." Is that your log?
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1 A. Yes, it is.
2 Q. Now, somewhere in the log there is a
3 conversation between, I believe it's you and the
4 security guard about her running out of money. Are you
5 familiar with that situation?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Tell me about that.
8 A. It is in the log, but what I remember was
9 that I was, like, you know, feeding her the mashed
10 bananas and protein powder. I was running out. I just
11 had this little personal supply of it, and then some
12 real nice protein shake showed up, and I said what is
13 this, where are these coming from, and I believe it was
14 the security guard that brought them.
15 Q. Sam?
16 A. Sam Ghiora, G H I 0 R A. I believe, I am not
17 real positive, but I think it was him, and he said that
18 that--
19 MR. STROPE: Excuse me, could you spell
20 that again?
21 A. G H I O R A. He said there had been a little
22 bit of money on account for her, and he got it out of
23 one of the hotel restaurants, and I was excited because
24 this was something she liked and it was nice and
25 nutritious and I wanted more, and he told me the money
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1 was out, but that her employer was going to be spoken
2 to to see if he could get some more, and I didn't know
3 it at the time, but I am pretty sure Bennetta Slaughter
4 was the employer.
5 BY MR. ANDREWS:
6 Q. Okay. I have here--I want to quickly show
7 you -- basically, it's a room listing. I know you told
8 Mr. McGarry that this is like a hotel and they bill the
9 room. This shows the indication of room eleven
10 seventy-four, but since, I have found out it's one
11 seventy-four. I guess they used an extra finger in
12 there. This room is next to the staff place,
13 refrigerator?
14 A. Housekeeping.
15 Q. So this is where Lisa was staying. It shows
16 here she was getting stuff from the canteen, which are
17 you familiar with that, like, you charge stuff to the
18 canteen?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And her food that was coming from the
21 canteen, some of it was quite expensive, being twenty
22 dollars. I don't know if that's three meals a day or
23 what, but it was quite high, and stops on the 23rd,
24 which happens to be Thanksgiving. It just stops.
25 A. I am going to tell you, I didn't know until I
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1 saw reports the other day, she was eating regular food
2 to begin with. I hadn't heard that at all. When I
3 came along, she was not eating. When I would put it in
4 her mouth, she would just spit it out. She could have
5 had, like, a light meal or something. That's
6 conjecture, but at that point she was eating regular
7 food.
8 Q. All right. I know that you said you came on
9 Thanksgiving to Clearwater, and it just so happens I am
10 missing some reports again for the 23rd, 24th and 25th.
11 A. I wasn't always consistent. I am not clear.
12 Q. That's not my question. And basically what
13 happens is, I don't pick up any reports until the 29th
14 from you. Now, there is missing reports or there is no
15 reports for Monday the 27th and Monday the 28th. Do
16 you remember whether you were on the watch then? You
17 can key it in by saying Thursday is Thanksgiving and
18 then this would be on the Monday.
19 A. I am honestly not sure.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. I am not positive.
22 Q. All right. The whole time that you take
23 over, from the 29th until the 5th, at the end, what
24 kind -- is she getting any food or not?
25 A. I mean--
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1 happened?
2 A. No, they are actually individuals in the
3 Church. Every one of us could take turns of being on
4 the committee. I have many times.
5 Q. Do you know if one of these was held in the
6 case of Lisa McPherson?
7 A. I do not.
8 Q. Did you write any reports to the Committee of
9 Evidence or were you ordered to write any reports in
10 reference to Lisa's death that would go to the
11 Committee of Evidence or to security?
12 A. I never heard anything about a Committee of
13 Evidence. I have never spoken to it about it. It
14 would seem -- it would have been a very natural thing
15 to be asked to write -- to do a write-up, like a
16 debrief of what happened, but I don't recall doing
17 that.
18 Q. Okay. You sound like so far you have been
19 able to provide everybody's first and last name, which
20 is really well. You sound like you are really
21 connected in the Church. My understanding, that Janis
22 Johnson is no longer the medical liaison officer. Do
23 you talk to her still?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What is she doing now?
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1 have a Committee of Evidence held at the Church in
2 reference to Lisa McPherson's case and then anybody
3 responsible taking -- I don't want to say demotion,
4 but no longer having the responsibility of their post,
5 that would not be unusual, correct?
6 A. It could occur. I don't know about it.
7 Usually when there is a Committee of Evidence, it's
8 written up, you know, a write-up of it, the findings of
9 what was done, what is being done about it and what the
10 person is doing. It's distributed to all of us, but I
11 never saw anything like that.
12 Q. In everything that I have learned so far as
13 far as the Church goes, and I am trying to understand
14 it, it would be -- and I would like you to disagree or
15 agree with this comment -- it would be very unlikely
16 that thirty people would be brought together after
17 Lisa's death for a quarantine, okay, that were all
18 involved with her, okay, and none of them to write any
19 reports at all, agree or disagree?
20 A. It's very unlikely.
21 Q. Thank you.
22 A. But I have to tell you, I didn't know she
23 died. I walked into that room, I was stunned. I mean,
24 I asked, "What is this? What is this? Everybody is
25 here. Who is with Lisa?" and they tell me she is dead.
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1 Q. Did Alain Kartuzinski pay regular visits?
2 Did he come and see Lisa at all?
3 A. I never saw him.
4 Q. Okay. So, there was some mention, I think,
5 in the logs about her asking for him, and that he was
6 her auditor or something like that, but you did not --
7 on your watches, he never paid a visit?
8 A. Never.
9 Q. Okay. When you came to relieve people on
10 your watch, okay, how did you get into the room?
11 A. I had a key.
12 Q. You had a key?
13 A. The door was locked.
14 Q. The door was locked, and from your
15 descriptions of Lisa, she could not leave?
16 MR. LAURO: Physically?
17 A. Physically, she could go anywhere. It was
18 not uncommon for her to stand up from the bed and just
19 charge in some direction. I never had her charge in
20 the direction of the door. It was toward the back
21 room.
22 BY MR. ANDREWS:
23 Q. What I am getting at is that it would be
24 reasonable -- if either one of us was there, it would
25 be reasonable for either one of us to have the door
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1 locked so that she couldn't get out into traffic or
2 charge out there, with her mental behavior that you
3 have described.
4 MR. LAURO: Wait a minute, I think the
5 question was, was the door locked to keep her inside or
6 was the door locked for other reasons or was the door
7 typically locked?
8 A. Well, I'll tell you my idea of why that door
9 was locked. I would hate for another person to come
10 along and see this woman screaming and gouging herself,
11 her face, a mess.
12 BY MR. ANDREWS:
13 Q. Okay, I understand, and that's basically what
14 I was trying to say, you know, that I would have kept
15 it locked, too. Security was mentioned, security
16 guards. Was there a security guard posted outside or
17 did you have to go and get them when you needed them?
18 A. When she was being really bad, I believe it
19 was like the first day, maybe the second.
20 Q. That you were there?
21 A. Oh, yeah, that I was there, yes. There was
22 someone outside the door, someone close by all the
23 time, and then after she quieted down, maybe up and
24 around and maybe, like, grabbing or scratching or
25 something like that, but not necessarily violent --
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1 well, violent, but not intense. I could call for help
2 at any time.
3 Q. Now, you have a great memory for names. Can
4 you remember any of the security guards that would have
5 been outside?
6 A. Yeah, Alphonso Barcenas was the one I
7 remember.
8 Q. Have you read any of the articles in the
9 newspapers?
10 A. Not at all.
11 Q. I was a little confused on your testimony as
12 far as the last day on December 5th, and the only
13 reason I bring this up is that I have read some of the
14 articles and some of the statements made by medical
15 people in this case, and you have indicated that she
16 was up and walking around on the 5th of December.
17 A. Yes, she was.
18 Q. And most of the medical people that were
19 involved were saying that she would have been
20 unconscious for two days.
21 KR. LAURO: I am not sure most of the
22 medical people involved are saying that. I think
23 that's an irrelevant question. If you want to ask her
24 what her observations are, that's fine. She has no
25 idea what somebody else--
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1 MR. ANDREWS: Well, I am trying to jog
2 her memory, because we don't have specific days here
3 that she can remember. I am trying to say maybe now on
4 the 5th or the 4th of December, did she remember her
5 running around and --
6 MR. LAURO: I think that's a good
7 question, but I don't think it should be prefaced
8 with what the medical people are saying.
9 BY MR. ANDREWS:
10 Q. Okay. My question again is that on -- that
11 we don't have any reports for the -- we have a very
12 scanty report for the 3rd of December and we have no
13 report for the 4th of December, which is Monday, and we
14 have no report for the 5th of December, which is
15 Tuesday when she died. Are you positive on the 5th of
16 December that she was up walking around?
17 A. Yeah, the last time -- that's why I was so
18 shocked when they said she died. The last time I saw
19 her, she was standing up, walking to the bathroom,
20 standing up.
21 MR. ANDREWS: That's all I have. Thank
22 you.
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. STROPE:
25 Q. When you left at five o'clock, was she up and
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1 about?
2 A. Yeah, she was on her feet. She was walking
3 around. She was being bathed. I mean, that's like --
4 you would say normal.
5 Q. Did you have to take her to the restroom to
6 bathe her?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. She couldn't walk?
9 A. She walked. She grabbed the shower curtain.
10 The shower curtain was gone. She pulled it down. She
11 would, like, plunge her hands and feet into the toilet.
12 She was, like, active, getting into everything, and we
13 would, like, just guard her from the toilet and get her
14 bathed. We were as wet as she was even though we
15 didn't get in the bathtub.
16 Q. So she had bowel movements that day on the
17 bed?
18 A. I didn't remember this before, but I think
19 the reason why there was a bath right then was because
20 she had another bowel movement. I had cleaned her up
21 in the bed several times. Her face and hair were
22 sticky from all the food she had (indicating).
23 Q. Is there any reason she couldn't go to the
24 bathroom? Could she walk?
25 A. Yeah. She never commented that she needed
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1 to, it just happened.
2 Q. I just have a couple of more questions. You
3 mentioned the Committee of Evidence.
4 A. I didn't, no.
5 Q. I am sorry. In your involvement with the
6 Committee of Evidence, either giving testimony or
7 asking questions, you, as a member of the organization,
8 was anybody there represented by an attorney? Do these
9 people have attorneys?
10 A. No, it has nothing to do with that.
11 Q. There are no attorneys that guide whatever
12 statements you make?
13 A. No.
14 MR. LAURO: Let me back up. Lawyers
15 don't provide statements that witnesses make. If your
16 question is whether or not Counsel has represented
17 somebody in the --
18 BY MR. STROPE:
19 Q Has anybody within that procedure --
20 A. No.
21 Q. Or is it kind of an internal affairs thing?
22 A. No, it's completely written up in a policy
23 and anybody can read it.
24 Q. I have read those policies.
25 A. A lawyer is not required to attend.
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1 Q. That was my question.
2 A. Individuals who read the policies, who know
3 our policies, know the level of integrity that is
4 expected.
5 Q. I think Wayne covered this, did Lisa make any
6 phone calls when she was there, have any visitors other
7 than caretakers?
8 A. No, I don't know of anything like that.
9 Q. Was there a time when you were there when you
10 had to summon security people?
11 A. The first day, or the first or second day
12 when she was very violent, yeah, I was getting --
13 Alphonso was outside the door.
14 Q. So did you have someone come in and help you
15 with her?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What did that someone do?
18 A. Well, I had been holding Lisa's hands because
19 she was gouging her face and she was, like, all over
20 the place (indicating), just move, move, move, and I
21 was holding her hands away from her face and she was
22 scratching, gouging me, and then she got into a
23 position where she could kick me, too, and, you know, I
24 could either get kicked or let go and let her scratch
25 herself, so I think she -- I don't think I had to call
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1 him. I think he heard her screaming or something, knew
2 something was going on, and he came in and he got ahold
3 of her legs, like down by the ankles.
4 Q. Like at a hospital, when they bind them in
5 bed?
6 A. No.
7 Q. You never had to bind her?
8 A. Well, we could have, but we didn't.
9 Q. You just restrained her physically?
10 A. Yes, not like restrained, pinned down. If
11 she is doing this to her face (indicating), you know,
12 she is clawing her face, we would take her hands away.
13 If she was clawing her arm, which she did a lot, we
14 would take her hands away, but, like, she would bite,
15 kick, scratch.
16 Q. What do you think the reason was for that? I
17 know you are not a doctor. Why was she so
18 incorrigible?
19 A. I don'tknow.
20 Q. Did anybody say maybe we should take her to
21 the hospital?
22 A. She had been to a hospital. She had a car
23 accident right before and --
24 Q. That was --
25 MR. LAURO: You need to let her finish.
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2 A. She had been to a hospital. She had the car
3 accident, took off her clothes, ran down the street. I
4 mean, she was --
5 BY MR. STROPE:
6 Q. But what--
7 MR. LAURO: Wait a minute, wait, wait,
8 don't interrupt. If you are going to ask a question,
9 let her finish it.
10 A. What was his question?
11 BY MR. STROPE:
12 Q. My question was, while she was at the Fort
13 Harrison, not prior to, but while she was at the Fort
14 Harrison, did anybody say to anybody else, maybe we
15 should take her to the hospital?
16 MR. LAURO: You can answer that with a
17 yes or no.
18 A. I don't know.
19 BY MR. STROPE:
20 Q. But you never heard anybody say let's get her
21 medical help?
22 A. She had it already. I knew that. She had
23 been in the hospital after the accident and --
24 Q. Well, that was before --
25 MR. LAURO: Wait a minute. Stop this
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1 right now.
2 MR. STROPE: Let me rephrase the
3 question.
4 MR. LAURO: Let me put this on the
5 record. Repeatedly you are interrupting the answer,
6 arguing with her. You are attempting to make your own
7 statements. If you want to ask questions as to
8 factually what happened, that's fine, but you are not
9 going to engage in arguments. This is not the proper
10 place.
11 MR. STROPE: I am not arguing.
12 MR. LAURO: That will be decided --
13 MR. STROPE: My question was after she
14 arrived at the Fort Harrison. I know about the
15 accident -- I wasn't -- I said after she arrived at the
16 Fort Harrison. I was trying to save some time by
17 telling her that I am familiar with that, but my
18 question was after she arrived at the Fort Harrison,
20 doctor.
21 A. Okay, here is my answer, with the
22 understanding it's not yes or no. I do understand your
23 question. You already know about previous. So my
24 knowledge was that she had been seen by a doctor in the
25 hospital, she signed herself out, and she didn't want
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1 to be there. She wanted to come back to the Church, so
2 my point of view is, help her, help her.
3 MR. LAURO: Now you really haven't
4 answered the question. When you were there, did you
5 ever hear or discuss with anybody taking her to a
6 hospital?
7 A. No.
8 BY MR. STROPE:
9 Q. I want to go one step further. Right towards
10 the end, when she has marks on her hands -- are you
11 familiar with those marks?
12 A. Yeah, scratches (indicating), bite, bites
13 herself, you know.
14 Q. Did, at that time, you, yourself, you or
15 someone else say we need to get her some medical
16 attention?
17 A. No. There is a note in my report here, she
18 has bitten her arms, she has scratched her arms, she
19 has cuts, but none of them are infected. I was
20 cleaning them, you know. They looked -- they weren't
21 inflamed, you know, red.
22 Q. I have seen her hands. There were some spots
23 that looked like bug bites to me. Did you see those?
24 A. She was scraping at herself constantly.
25 Q. These were more like dots, like bites. Did
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1 you see those?
2 A. No. I never saw bugs in the room, either. I
3 was in the room all the time. I don't like bugs.
4 Q. But you never saw any bugs in the room?
5 A. No.
6 Q. You don't remember writing a report after the
7 meeting, the day that Lisa died? Were you requested to
8 write a report?
9 A. It seems so likely that I would have, but I
10 don't remember. I was really stunned. It was a
11 complete shock to me that she was dead.
12 Q. The room that you described, was that the
13 room that she stayed in during the whole visit? Did
14 she move to any other location?
15 A. When I became involved, that's the room she
16 was in.
17 Q. You became involved right after her accident?
18 A. I don't even know when the accident occurred,
19 actually. It's some days, two to three days after
20 Thanksgiving.
21 Q. So she had been there for a few days before
22 you became involved?
23 A. I guess so.
24 Q. You said that Sylvia became upset. Why was
25 she upset?
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1 A. She was depressed about Lisa's behavior. I
2 mean, Lisa attacked us. I mean, she would attack
3 herself and she would attack us.
4 Q. Is Sylvia an emotional person?
5 A. No, she usually is real cheerful, happy-go-
6 lucky, but she is a brand new Scientologist, not much
7 training, and she didn't know what to make of it. It
8 disturbed her.
9 Q. How old is Sylvia?
10 A. I guess thirtyish.
11 Q. She is fairly new to the organization?
12 A. I think so, yeah.
13 Q. Arthur Baxter was in charge of security back
14 then?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Is he still there?
17 A. Yeah, he is a security guard. He is in
18 charge of a different area, but he is not the overall
19 in charge.
20 Q. Did you ever see him in the room with Lisa?
21 A. Not in the room. He is the one who briefed
22 me outside.
23 Q. So when someone shut off for their tour of
24 duty, you were briefed as to what happened on the prior
25 shift?
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1 A. That one time, like, Arthur, like, preparing
2 me, talked to me, but routinely, no. I would go in
3 and, like, whisper, like, she has been sleeping, she
4 hasn't eaten.
5 Q. During your tours of duty there, did Janis
6 Johnson stop in daily?
7 A. I think I saw her a couple of times during
8 the time I was there. That would be, like, night, well
9 into the next day.
10 Q. Are you familiar with Doctor Minkoff? Have
11 you heard of him?
12 A. I have met him a couple of times.
13 Q. When would that have been?
14 A. It was about two Saturdays ago. I don't even
15 know what day of the week. A few days ago he and Alain
16 went to the apartment complex we have to check in some
17 people who were at home in bed with the flu.
18 Q. Have you ever discussed this with him?
19 A. No.
20 Q. And what was the term used for--you would
21 use for Lisa's stay?
22 A. Well, she arrived as a parishioner, to
23 receive, you know, training or something. I didn't
24 know her before. Actually, I don't know if she was
25 staying there. You know, I don't know if she was
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1 staying at the Fort Harrison or if she moved. I
2 actually don't know that.
3 Q. Again, I base a lot on what I hear, the
4 rumors that I hear. An attorney for the Church has
5 said that Lisa was in isolation at the Church. What
6 does that term, isolation, mean to you?
7 MR. LAURO: You can answer that question
8 in reference to what does the term isolation mean to
9 you. Anything else relating to what somebody else has
10 said is totally irrelevant. Just answer the question
11 in reference to what isolation means to you.
12 A. Isolation, to me, means separate from others.
13 BY MR. STROPE:
14 Q. Separated from the public, from other people?
15 A. Separate from other people. I mean, that's
16 not even a Church word.
17 Q. Isolation is not a Church word?
18 A. No. It's a regular dictionary word. We
19 don't have a special definition for isolation. We have
20 a technical dictionary and administrative dictionary.
21 I don't think you would find that in either one of them
22 as a special Church definition.
23 Q. Is there a term isolation?
24 A. No.
25 Q. These clear gelatin capsules, did you say you
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1 had those from Doctor Johnson?
2 A. No, they were simply on the bureau. I didn't
3 know where they came from.
4 Q. Were their directions with them?
5 A. I believe so. I just don't remember knowing
6 what chloral hydrate is. I gathered by my own reports
7 when I saw them the other day that, well, the gelatin
8 capsule was the chloral hydrate. I think you confirmed
9 that by looking at it.
10 MR. ANDREWS: Yes.
11 A. And I couldn't remember the name of the
12 little white tablets. I wrote little white tablets.
13 BY MR. STROPE:
14 Q. I can't picture you giving her a tablet just
15 sitting on there with no directions.
16 A. Yeah, I must have had some the day they were
17 given to me, but I don't remember.
18 Q. You said that Laura speaks English, Laura
19 Arrunado?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. Does she speak well?
22 A. I have only had casual conversations with
23 her. I think so, from my casual conversations away
24 from taking care of Lisa. We didn't really talk much
25 then when taking care of Lisa. We were talking about
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1 kids, talking about, you know, the weather and stuff
2 like that. Yeah, I think so.
3 Q. Getting back to Doctor Johnson for a minute,
4 when she would come in, did she do the normal doctor
5 things, check vital signs and temperature and those
6 type of things?
7 MR. LAURO: Let me interrupt that
8 question. You can describe, without an editorial
9 comment to the question, what you saw.
10 A. I don't remember temperature being taken, I
11 don't remember vital signs. I remember her sitting on
12 the side of the bed, like, observing Lisa. If Lisa
13 acknowledged her, like, holding her hand --
14 One time when Janis came in -- see, Janis was
15 in uniform and the rest of us didn't. We just figured
16 like a uniform might be disturbing to her, like
17 somebody there to do something to her rather than just
18 be with her, so Janis was still in her uniform and Lisa
19 would say something that made me think that she thought
20 Janis was a psychiatrist or somebody that was there to
21 hurt her, and it was -- I mean, the previous times she
22 had been very accepting of Janis, and this time she was
23 kind of disturbed, and I don't know just what she said,
24 but she thought Janis was there to hurt her, but
25 usually Janis would just sit there on the side of the
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1 bed.
2 There was a time that I know she hadn't
3 slept, I was real worried and remember telling Janis
4 that, and Janis got -- was able to get her to swallow,
5 and it's in the report, where I hadn't been able to.
6 BY MR. STROPE:
7 Q. Do you know Humberto Fontana?
8 A. I know of him. I don't have a personal --
9 Q. He was never with you during that time,
10 during the time when you were there?
11 A. No. I didn't know him, period. I have known
12 him since then. If he was there, I don't know.
13 Q. And you know Bennetta Slaughter?
14 A. At the time, I didn't even know there was a
15 person named that, but last December I did meet her.
16 Q. Was she there at that time?
17 A. I never saw her. I was told -- well, no, I
18 was never told her name. I was told this was Lisa's
19 employer, was providing some money, and I assumed that
20 that was Bennetta.
21 Q. After you left the day that Lisa passed away,
22 you left around five?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And Heather stayed on?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Do you remember anything that she had to eat
2 or drink that night?
3 A. It would have been the protein shakes, just
4 things I usually got into her, but I do know that she
5 was, like, refusing more and more, that's why she was
6 so dirty with food, and I kept trying to feed her and
7 she would take a little bit and she would spit the rest
8 out.
9 Q. Did you prepare for today's deposition with
10 anyone other than your attorney?
11 A. No.
12 MR. LAURO: Prepare, I don't know what
13 that means.
14 BY MR. STROPE:
15 Q. Have you sat and talked about what you were
16 going to testify here today with anyone other than with
17 your attorney?
18 A. Mr. Farney
19 Q. Farney?
20 A. Yeah. He is the one that showed me my
21 reports originally.
22 Q. How long was that session?
23 A. About twenty minutes.
24 Q. There was no discussion about your testimony
25 today?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. You said that was the first time since this
3 happened that you have reviewed this with anyone other
4 than your attorney?
5 A. No, there were two other attorneys. A lady
6 by the first name of Laura (phonetic).
7 Q. Do you remember someone by the name of
8 Morris?
9 A. I don't remember the name. I don't know the
10 man's name. I remember the lady.
11 MR. STROPE: I don't have anything else.
12 Thank you.
13 FURTHER EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. ANDREWS:
15 Q. I have a quick question. Up until the end,
16 you know, you took care of her through that weekend and
17 then that Monday and Tuesday, and she died on Tuesday
18 night, was Janis Johnson there through that whole time?
19 There was no big lapses that she was not there?
20 A. No, she was in and out.
21 MR. ANDREWS: Okay, that's my question.
22 Thank you.
23 _______________________________________
24
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1 STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
2
I, the undersigned authority, certify that
3 RITA BOYKIN appeared before me and was duly sworn.
4 WITNESS my hand and official seal this 26th
day of March, 1997.
5
6
7
(signature)
8 SHERYL M. WILLIAMS
Notary Public - State of Florida
9 My Commission No. CC 294742
My Commission Expires: 07/13/97
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1 STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
2
I, SHERYL M. WILLIAMS, Registered
3 Professional Reporter, certify that I was authorized to
and did stenographically report the statement of
4 RITA BOYKIN, and that the transcript is a true
and complete record of my stenographic notes.
5
I further certify that I am not a relative,
6 employee, attorney, or/counsel of any of the parties,
nor am I a relative or/employee of any of the parties'
7 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I
financially interested in the action.
8
Dated this 26th day of March, 1997.
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(signature)
11 Sheryl M. Williams, R.P.R., C.M.
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KANABAY & KANABAY - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS